tlcorbinIslamic Apologists Challenged
April 6th 2008 12:47
My Challenge is two fold:
A - What are 5 positive and 5 negative qualities of modern Muslims? (Don’t quote or paraphrase scripture or propaganda).
B – What are 5 positive and 5 negative qualities of modern Judeo - Christians? (Don’t quote or paraphrase scripture or propaganda).
I can do this easily and objectively, can you?
Raven
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Comment by Damo
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My Apologetics
You heart in the right place and even your mind is looking for balance.
Good luck with getting a rational response here.
This public forum is a blog and you are posing this question to an environment with angry people with their own axes to grind.
Some people are not looking for answers but to tell everyone why we can never live in peace with a particular group and why we should never have to.
My answer is you can no more generalize about the good points of one group than you can abut their bad points or even who they are.
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Comment by tlcorbin
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I am not interested in controversy, but I am curious to know another's point of view, pro and con. The challenge is clearly written and not complicated to respond to. We'll see what happens.
Raven
Comment by Kleonaptra
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I know I want to learn more - a friend asked me recently what I think about muslims as he was on the hate trail until some moved into his street. He talked to the guys about cars and found a happy family with equally happy women, so asked me what I thought. I told him I cant make a judgement as I simply dont know enough about it - obviously some hate it and some love it but how is that so different to anything else in any culture? Id love to talk to some of the happy women and see what they think, I did catch a debate on tv once that was enlightening as one of the debate members was in a full robe and defending her stance.
As for christians....Most of them disobey their own rules and thus are not christians at all. But thats a whole other topic.
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
I'd like to answer B as much as I can. Please note that I'm answering from personal experience, not doing the copious amounts of research that might warrant pie-charts, laser pointers and white boards.
the positives about many judeo-christians:
1.Alot of them are fairly generous with decent attitudes. They tend not to get overly flustered or angry unless they have to.
2.Many christians support at least one charity, sponsor a child, etc.
3.Many of them have a respect for civil authority that doesn't necessarily mean that they do whatever the government says, but it does mean they attempt to be law-abiding.
4.Alot of them do actually read books and try to learn things.
5.They try to live with as much peace towards everyone that they can.
And of course, the negatives:
1.Some are self-righteous, small-minded, brainwashed idiots that need a good slapping. I know you don't want me to quote the Bible, but in this case, Proverbs 20:30.
2.They are still human and are going to screw up. They may not apologise about it either.
3.Some will try to justify things that are not biblical by using the Bible out of context.
4.Some think that just because the man in the nice suit says something, it's totally true. Or if he ends his sentences with "this saith The Lord, Hallelujah!".
5.They don't read any other book other than the Bible, and don't try to see it from any other perspective.
Hopefully this helps to lead to some good dialogue.
JZ
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When this has been up for a day or so, I will post my response to the questions. And you can draw your own conclusions.
Raven
Comment by Neems
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I grew up in Brunei which is a muslim country and I loved it there so I'd like to attempt an answer to A.
Five Positive Points About Modern Muslims- and these cme from my direct experiences.
1) Their courage to stand up for the religion they beleive in, when it's being attacked by the world. i admire this when the world is particularly hostile towards them in this age.
2) Their interpretation of Islam- some represent a non-radical, more peaceful side to the religion
3) The muslims I know perfectly incorporate their beliefs and live side by side with those not of the same faith. Showing that it can be done!
4) Some outwardly condemn the extremists- this I beleive should done more as people need to realise that the extremists are but a small portion who twist the religion to suit their radical beliefs. Not all muslims are of the same frame of mind.
5) Many are active members of society- prominent speakers who are trying to bring stability to their shaken world, while pushing for more understanding and intergration and bridging the ever-growing gap between muslims and the rest of the world.
And now the negatives:
1) There are those who support the - THEM and US attitude which weakens any bridges of understanding that could be crossed.
2) Those who beleive that Islam is the only religion that should be respected, and aren't willing to let others be happy in their own faith
3) Some resort to violence to make their point
4) Some are severly misinformed as they are brainwashed by propaganda
5) Some simply don't want to see things in any way but their own- this lack of perspective leads to prejudice whcih opens up so many more cans of worms.
Having said all this, these can be applied to most faiths, cutlures, races etc.
Neems
Comment by Morgan Bell
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Muslims
- very polite, quiet, reserved and unassuming
- modest and non-confrontational in dress and behaviour
- eager to learn, conscientious and diligent with study
- believe in arranged marriages and honouring and bringing respect to their families
- hard-working, disciplined and dedicated to work, education, and business
- often do not drink or socialise at night outside their family but are very accepting of people who do
- loyal to their cultural traditions and family history, trying to keep alive foods and customs from their descendants
Christians
- involved in the community, their neighbours and everyone elses business
- generous with inviting others around for dinner at their house or offering a lift in their car
- often socialise only within a church or youth group but often encourage outsiders to join in the activities
- forgiving of mistakes (their own and others)
- as teenagers date and are in involved in sexual activity and relationships earlier and more often than the other kids
- eager to teach, very forward and opinionated and argue like a dog with a bone
- need alot of attention
- well-meaning and full of good intentions
- socially awkward
Comment by RubySoho
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But Raven, I do assume you have the best of intentions. Now, with approx. 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, of various sects and nationalities how to give an accurate description of all their virtues and vices? Simple- I can't, I haven’t met all of them. But it did get me thinking of my own father. He was a Muslim and I knew him fairly well I think. So, if all Muslims are the same, then it goes without saying, they would all be as my father was.
Good Points:
1. SELF-SACRIFICING: He gave up a promising career as a trade union official in Lebanon to work in a plastics factory in Sydney so that his children would not grow up in the midst of war.
2. GOOD LISTENER- In the close-knit Alawite Muslim community in Sydney, my father had a reputation as the local counsellor. Marriage in trouble? Finances not looking so good? Homesick? He was your man.
3. OPEN MINDED: He encouraged his kids to learn about other religions, especially Christianity and accept them as ‘people of the book’.
4. DID NOT LIKE EXTREMISTS: Not for my Dad the fatwah on Salman Rushdie, nor the attacks on 911, and especially not the rigid theocracies of Iran and Saudi Arabia. As for honour killings, well, I’m still alive aren’t I?
5. HE COULDN”T SPEAK ENGLISH: But he tried really, really hard to learn.
Bad Points:
1. A LITTLE BIT SEXIST: Unlike Christian families, in our household the boys mowed the lawn and took out the garbage and the girls washed the dishes and did the laundry.
Oh, wait a minute….
2.BELIEVED IN GOD: Well, I consider that a bad point. But that’s just me.
3. HIS FAVOURITE SHOW WAS BENNY HILL: I mean really Dad? Come on.
4. ATE WITH HIS MOUTH OPEN: Really annoying at the dinner table. I don’t need to see it or hear it.
5. HE COULDN’T SPEAK ENGLISH: And of course that was a constant source of embarrassment to his overly- Anglicised children. Spare a thought for us at parent teacher night.
So that was my Dad. A Muslim. And a good man. So much different to all of yours? Probably not. I did not like his religion but I loved him, and with a ferociousness I am yet to feel for any other human being. But he is four years gone now, and what of it anyway? The western world is no closer to understanding Islam than it is to understanding the meaning of life itself.
But this reminiscing makes me sad and there is a slow song on the radio that brings a tear to my eye:
Say goodbye to love, and hold your head up high.
There’s no need to rush now, we’re all just waiting,
Waiting to die…
Oh yes, I love the smell of moroseness in the…evening.
Comment by tlcorbin
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Having said all this, these can be applied to most faiths, cultures, races etc.
I have to agree with you on that quote. Thank you for sharing your thoughtful observations.
Hello Morgan, great points, thanks for trying to be neutral.
. . . eager to teach, very forward and opinionated and argue like a dog with a bone
hahaha, this describes me when I get carried away with myself and darned if I’m not aware of it. Thank you, for your comments.
~ ~ ~
Hello Ruby, no deception intended; that title you suggested (Religious Apologists Challenged), is for a future post, and a post entitled (Secular Apologists Challenged) should follow as well.
Would you mind if I use your title or would you like to co-author the post?
The misinformation and widespread ignorance that exists about other cultures, beliefs and spirituality contributes heavily the schisms plaguing the worlds and even our micro cyber world here on Orble. Perhaps opening up about the pros and cons of our belief systems can help create a climate of scholarly calm and later to understanding acceptance of one another. That’s the altruistic side of me, the pragmatist says; this probably isn’t going to be easy. But it’s a start.
Your Dad sounds like a man interested in family over career; here in the US, my major complaint is that our culture puts career over family and we reap the whirlwind as a result. I could hang out with a person like your dad, whether we spoke the same language or not.
As for the music on the radio; there's always the off switch.
Thank you for sharing your comments.
Raven
Comment by RubySoho
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You can use the title and I'd be happy to add anything you might find helpful.
Ruby
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